Remote web control based on audio files instead of the presets?

[stimmingexperiments]

I recently got a 2B and I've really been blown away by some of the MP3s and Milovana teases which can take my breath away at only 10-20% power. I find the built in modes boring by comparison.

I then got the accessory pack with the digital link cable and to be honest I'm disappointed. Commander can't do anything you can't already do on the 2B and all the third party apps seem to just re-invent the wheel.

I thought about what I'd like to make to improve things and the simplest solution seems to be to drop the digital link and go back to stereo. Why not cut 5s, 10s, 1m, etc snippets out of the best audio files and then allow whoever is in control to queue them up, loop them, etc like a DJ? There's probably already some online music site that could do this but if not it'd be simple to make one. Some sort of visualiser so the controller can "see" what is happening would help too.

Does this exist already or is it a bad idea that won't work?

[admin]

I recently got a 2B and I've really been blown away by some of the MP3s and Milovana teases which can take my breath away at only 10-20% power. I find the built in modes boring by comparison.

I then got the accessory pack with the digital link cable and to be honest I'm disappointed. Commander can't do anything you can't already do on the 2B and all the third party apps seem to just re-invent the wheel.

Apart from record and play back sessions, which as editable files you can create, Connect allows control over the internet, and Uplink allows you to try the latest firmware....so actually it does quite a lot.

Does this exist already or is it a bad idea that won't work?

No idea is bad until you try it.

Si

[stimmingexperiments]

Apart from record and play back sessions, which as editable files you can create, Connect allows control over the internet, and Uplink allows you to try the latest firmware....so actually it does quite a lot.

My view is more that you've offered of a lot as the base but the community hasn't developed it very far or maybe I've missed the more fully featured apps.

What I have in mind is something similar to the Milovana teases but can be composed on the fly.

One benefit of stereo as I understand it is that each channel can be controlled separately by the left/right tracks, is that correct? But why can't you choose different patterns on each channel in Commander or Connect? Is that a hardware limitation or simply a missing option in the GUI?

Is it possible to play stereo files over the digital link so you would have full control over power level etc as well? Or alternatively convert stereo files to a series of commands that would work over the digital link or would too much get lost in translation? Is the opposite possible too, i.e. could you faithfully recreate the pulse, throb, etc modes from an audio file alone?

What attracts me about using audio snippets is it it'd be an easy way to create a catalogue of pre-existing sensations rather than starting from scratch. I'm not tied to the idea, it simply seems like a quick hack to get started.

I've also seen rumours that the beta firmwares improved compatibility with the Milovana torture teases but nobody has actually come back and posted publicly whether that's true or not. Is it true?

[admin]

My view is more that you've offered of a lot as the base but the community hasn't developed it very far or maybe I've missed the more fully featured apps.

Given that people have developed control systems with virtually every OS in existence, I'm not sure how you can say that. What you actually seem to mean is no one has developed what YOU are looking for.

What I have in mind is something similar to the Milovana teases but can be composed on the fly.

So create something? What comes out of the PC in audio terms is down to the program running on the PC, the 2B will just response to the audio.

One benefit of stereo as I understand it is that each channel can be controlled separately by the left/right tracks, is that correct? But why can't you choose different patterns on each channel in Commander or Connect? Is that a hardware limitation or simply a missing option in the GUI?

Most of the patterns in the 2B the Channels work together by design. The 2B is a dual channel unit, so the 2B design ideas revolve around the concept of both channels being used at the same time, with the output complementing each other.

Is it possible to play stereo files over the digital link .....

No.

Is the opposite possible too, i.e. could you faithfully recreate the pulse, throb, etc modes from an audio file alone?

No its not possible. You could possible come close, but they would not be identical. This is not a limitation of the 2B, but Digial Signal Processing (DSP) theory.

What attracts me about using audio snippets is it it'd be an easy way to create a catalogue of pre-existing sensations rather than starting from scratch. I'm not tied to the idea, it simply seems like a quick hack to get started.

Its an idea, why not look towards developing it?

I've also seen rumours that the beta firmwares improved compatibility with the Milovana torture teases but nobody has actually come back and posted publicly whether that's true or not. Is it true?

Peoples perception of audio files will always be different, the new firmware does offer wider control over audio with new audio modes and output mapping controls.

Si

[stimmingexperiments]

Given that people have developed control systems with virtually every OS in existence, I'm not sure how you can say that.

Nearly every app does the same thing in a different skin. The same app repeated on different OS's is not variety.

The only big difference I've seen is that some apps allow the remote user to load saved sessions. There's also apps designed primarily for competing products that allow you to construct sound waves from scratch.

What you actually seem to mean is no one has developed what YOU are looking for.

Yes that is exactly what I mean. What is wrong with wanting to create something new?

Its an idea, why not look towards developing it?

It's the whole point of this thread. I bought the 2B to develop for it.

I don't understand why you are so hostile and your responses have now soured my opinion of your product. I just wanted to make sure I'm not making a newbie mistake and wasting my time on a futile project or reinventing the wheel.

[admin]

I'm a little confused here. We have attempted to answer your questions, explained the reasoning behind some of them and encouraged your to work on your ideas.

Yet you complain about our comments, suggest every other developer has created the same thing and now you want to throw your toys out of the pram and storm off in a huff.

Its simple. If you want to develop your own ideas, then please feel free to do so, we encourage people to do so. But please don't do it by slamming everyone else efforts, especially when it appears that you have no real understanding of what can and cannot be done. We have a strong community of active developers, and we actively encourage people to come up with new ideas, as it benefits all of our users. We are the ONLY manufacturer who does this, and have done so for at least the last 10 years. We don't always get things right, but we do try, and we always try to listen even if we don't agree with your viewpoint.

There's also apps designed primarily for competing products that allow you to construct sound waves from scratch.

Yes there are. And your point is? Why not ask them if they will develop their products to work with the 2B. I know at least one product SmartStim that we have worked with the developer to do exactly that....

Si

[stimmingexperiments]

Yes there are. And your point is?

This is what I mean. Why is your reply unnecessarily hostile?

My point was to list the sort of apps I've discovered and maybe you could suggest some more I might have missed but you have chosen to interpret it in a completely different way.

Nor have I "slammed" anyone else's efforts.

You seem overly defensive about everything and it's a strange tone from an account called "admin" which I would presume is meant to offer official customer support.

[admin]

Presumption is never a good idea in any situation. And I believe you have interpenetrated my replies in a complete different way. This is the nature of internet conversations.

I might be using the admin account, but I'm not actually customer support, I am the person who designed the 2B, wrote most of the firmware, wrote most of Commander and developed some of the Connect system. I will obviously defend my efforts, the efforts of my staff and other developers on the forum who are kind enough spend time working with us and helping us to improve our products. Making incorrect statements about our products and describing others work as 'just re-inventing the wheel' (your words) , is not what I would consider a good way to start any conversion, let alone a conversation asking for ideas and support.

I don't believe my replies have been hostile, just direct and to the point, but if you feel they have been over the top then I apologise.

Possibly drawing a line under this conversion and starting in a little more constructive manner might be helpful, and possibly you might get a response from others users/developers on this forum.

Might I begin? What apps have you come across that have been written to use audio with other products?

Si

[LondonSubNigel]

all the third party apps seem to just re-invent the wheel

Aside from allowing the usual local control of the 2B, Estim Control/Server allows control via a local or direct TCP connection, supported web control via HTTP long before most people had websocket support. It now allows simple remote use with either the official Connect server, or with my own StimBroker server, which adds person to person chat alongside.

Previous versions (before evoCam was killed) could provide live captioning of output levels for a video feed of someone being stimmed.

It also allows you to separately specify for a program how long to ramp up to a level, how long to run at that level, then ramp down. You can save that as a favourite. You can program a sequence of favourites to play one after the other. You can even put them on shuffle, and arrange for the various settings to be randomised each run through, increasing each time through the loop.

You can enter quick paramters, like 'increase channel A by 5 over the next 30 seconds'

Frankly, I think that's a hell of a lot more than just reinventing the wheel.

My Android app isn't quite as sophisticated, but it can discover a copy of ECS on the local network, and connect seamlessly to the 2B linked via that, giving the mobile user access to the favourites stored on the PC or Mac. It can trigger a choice of options based on the device's accelerometer, provide a single button 'boost' and also is able to either control a 2B locally via USB, on the LAN via ECS, or via StimBroker.

But again, just re-inventing the wheel.

Really, I should just have stayed in bed and not bothered.

[stimmingexperiments]

Might I begin? What apps have you come across that have been written to use audio with other products?

The one I was thinking of is Electron which I haven't actually used because I assumed it would run into the problem of the different responses to pain files (I knew about this before I bought the 2B so it doesn't bother me). I only mentioned it because I wanted to list something that was a fundamentally different user experience.

Someone on this forum mentioned they made their own private fork of Electron so they could loop sounds, add them to a play list, etc which is the beginning of what I'm looking for.

all the third party apps seem to just re-invent the wheel

Aside from allowing the usual local control of the 2B, Estim Control/Server allows control via a local or direct TCP connection, supported web control via HTTP long before most people had websocket support. It now allows simple remote use with either the official Connect server, or with my own StimBroker server, which adds person to person chat alongside.

Previous versions (before evoCam was killed) could provide live captioning of output levels for a video feed of someone being stimmed.

It also allows you to separately specify for a program how long to ramp up to a level, how long to run at that level, then ramp down. You can save that as a favourite. You can program a sequence of favourites to play one after the other. You can even put them on shuffle, and arrange for the various settings to be randomised each run through, increasing each time through the loop.

You can enter quick paramters, like 'increase channel A by 5 over the next 30 seconds'

Frankly, I think that's a hell of a lot more than just reinventing the wheel.

My Android app isn't quite as sophisticated, but it can discover a copy of ECS on the local network, and connect seamlessly to the 2B linked via that, giving the mobile user access to the favourites stored on the PC or Mac. It can trigger a choice of options based on the device's accelerometer, provide a single button 'boost' and also is able to either control a 2B locally via USB, on the LAN via ECS, or via StimBroker.

But again, just re-inventing the wheel.

Really, I should just have stayed in bed and not bothered.

Hi Nigel, I saw your apps but missed the sequence feature as I think I was mentally looking for "playlist". That actually seems like what I've been looking for. Thanks.

I also saw StimBroker but was wary of even trying it because donating via PayPal would give away my real name, business email, etc.