2B duty cycle guidance

[Riddle]

I am curious about possible duty cycle limitations for the 2B box. How long may I operate a channel at 100% and High power setting? Does the electrode connection (rubber loop, OMG, etc.) matter to the duty cycle? Also, how long may it be left powered on with the AC adapter connected? For instance, may I have it waiting for serial data overnight and then have it start outputting stimulation in the morning?

One possible scenario would use the power box to provide a wake-up signal.

[admin]

it depends. we have test units that have run for literally days, but there are so many variables in your question it is impossible to answer.

Si

[Riddle]

Understood. I will try to ask it differently. Is the 2B outputs protected from overheating? Is there anything I need to know or observe to prevent damage to my 2B?

[Davespages]

I have "killed" both of my 2B'S by running both channels at 100% for over an hour.
This was with feel turned up, pulses that were long and sharp feel... with power at 100% and running on a mains adaptor.

It was too much power delivery for an extended length of time and on both occasions some electrical component burnt out.

Do you need that much power sustained for that long? No
Chances are by that point you've desensitized the skin and nerves so much that more power won't help.

I've learnt that if I hit high power levels and nothing.much is happening, I either need to change mode to a different setting for a Different feel or to.have a 10-15minute rest for sensitivity to return.

Also, I only use the units on battery power, not the mains. Not had to send a 2b back for repair since.

[Barcoded]

@davespages thanks for the input. Does your comment mean that the boxes were repaired under the lifetime guarantee?

[Riddle]

Doh! Channel B died while running 80% power (Waterfall, 80/100, Large Torpedo); it wasn’t even running very long.

[Riddle]

it depends. we have test units that have run for literally days, but there are so many variables in your question it is impossible to answer.

Si

The correct answer would have been "No, there are no concerns regarding a channel overheating because adequate precautions in the circuit design have been taken."

The true answer is "There are significant concerns regarding overheating a channel and causing permanent channel failure, but we have not bothered to perform adequate testing to quantify it."

To other customers: The 2B has not been adequately designed and tested for use with the larger premium electrodes; there is a significant risk of 2B circuit damage.

[admin]

it depends. we have test units that have run for literally days, but there are so many variables in your question it is impossible to answer.

Si

The correct answer would have been "No, there are no concerns regarding a channel overheating because adequate precautions in the circuit design have been taken."

The true answer is "There are significant concerns regarding overheating a channel and causing permanent channel failure, but we have not bothered to perform adequate testing to quantify it."

To other customers: The 2B has not been adequately designed and tested for use with the larger premium electrodes; there is a significant risk of 2B circuit damage.

Really. so you are now an expert on our designs? Do you work for us? No? Then I suggest your opinion and your assumptions are incorrect.

To say 'significant risk' when you have no idea how many units are sold, and how many units have has issues, on a design that has been sold successfully for the 13 years, it had to quantify. You appear to be basing your comments from a few posts on social media, again with a built in bias - people generally tend to complain more when things go wrong that complement when things do work, and we seem to have a handful of keyboard warriors who simply don't like what we do or how we do it, and love to attack us at every opportunity -but that is the nature of social media, and we will always try to offer our side of any discussion.

There are actually 14 versions of the 2B design in circulation, and each one has generally improved on the last. There are no 'concerns' in relation to the 2B, as its been in continuous production and development since 2010, and with 10s of 1000s of units in circulation, together with an active and comprehensive repair policy - the lifetime guarantee means we actually have some idea what can fail on a unit, and we are constantly working to eliminate every possible issue, as free repairs cost us money.

We also were in development for a year before release of the 2B, and a number of concepts came over from a previous unit, the Series 2, so its hard to see how you can say we have not 'adequately designed and tested' the unit. However like all devices used by humans in multiple ways, in multiple environments, we cannot predict each and every use which is why all devices can fail, from iWatches to Cars and yes even our E-Stim units. Hence my original 'slightly off the cuff' comment. And before thinking about failures of the unit itself you need to consider that a significant proportion of issues are not with the units, but issues with cables, conductive rubber, the general perception of e-stim sensation - what you feel today is not what you might feel tomorrow, and of course the most popular - simply not reading the instructions.

So its simple. The 2B has been developed, tested, continues to be improved and if anyone has any issues with a unit, all you need to do it contact us and we will sort it out. It's that simple. I'm not sure how many other companies will do that, or even respond to your comments beyond the usual corporate drivel of 'we thank you for your comments' etc

The 2B has been designed to cope with overheating and overloads, but like everything things can always be taken too far, but later units have increased protections in place, and the design has always been created to fail safe, ensuring the intrinsic safety of the user and the expense of a component.

Si

[Riddle]

Let's do a summary of the history involved here.
1. Early 2022, I purchased 3 electrodes (Stuffer, OMG, Decimator), 2 power boxes (2B, E-Stim Remote), and the low-profile cable direct from E-Stim Systems.
2. Later 2022, I received the order and checked everything out. The 2B on battery power was disappointing so I put it back in the box and used the Remote box with the Stuffer. Neither box had adequate intensity with the OMG.
3. July 2023, I purchased conductive rubber electrodes and tried the 2B on high with the power adapter. Those electrodes had good intensity; still inadequate with the Stuffer.

>>4. I opened this thread asking for guidance so I would NOT break my 2B!

5. Still July 2023, ordered the Large Torpedo to try it.
6. August 2023 (last month), received the Large Torpedo and found that it had better intensity so I actually used it a fair amount.

>>7. 31 August 2023, I was shocked to discover channel B dead while running Waterfall 80% intensity (80:100 on adjustments, high mode, AC adapter). After contacting E-Stim Systems to get my 2B repaired, I decided to stim with the Stuffer on channel A running Waterfall 90% intensity (80:100 on adjustments, high mode, AC adapter). The stimulation was only enough to feel it and lasted about 20 minutes. Both channels dead!

8. I did discuss the failure of my 2B box on a discord server and received input from several members. None of them are E-Stim Systems haters! Instead, I received information on the output circuit and why it fails with larger electrodes and higher power levels (80%+). Prior to this conversation, I was told that I needed a smaller electrode to have a better stim experience.

>>9. I shared my understanding of the 2B here and you can see how the admin responded.

it depends. we have test units that have run for literally days, but there are so many variables in your question it is impossible to answer.

Si

The correct answer would have been "No, there are no concerns regarding a channel overheating because adequate precautions in the circuit design have been taken."

The true answer is "There are significant concerns regarding overheating a channel and causing permanent channel failure, but we have not bothered to perform adequate testing to quantify it."

To other customers: The 2B has not been adequately designed and tested for use with the larger premium electrodes; there is a significant risk of 2B circuit damage.

Really. so you are now an expert on our designs? Do you work for us? No? Then I suggest your opinion and your assumptions are incorrect.

To say 'significant risk' when you have no idea how many units are sold... You appear to be basing your comments from a few posts on social media...

The 2B has been designed to cope with overheating and overloads, but like everything things can always be taken too far, but later units have increased protections in place, and the design has always been created to fail safe, ensuring the intrinsic safety of the user and the expense of a component.

Si

Having seen the schematics for the 2B, read and comprehended them to include the BJT (bipolar junction transistor) operating in the linear region (generates heat), and understand why 2B customers learn to not use large insertable electrodes with their power box; I believe that makes me enough of an expert to make my statements above. Do I work for you? Obviously not, because I would have demanded E-Stim Systems adequately test the 2B on max (100%) power for all electrodes: I believe either that would have been done or I would have been fired for not leaving that issue alone.

Admin, I noticed that you attacked my credibility instead of the facts upon which my understanding used. How many 2B units have been sold and how many of them never fail is completely irrelevant to this thread. How about you let us all know how many customers who purchase an electrode sized Large Torpedo and above with AC adapter that have an output channel fail? The "significant risk" I mentioned entered my thinking when BOTH 2B channels failed on me in less than 24 hours! Social media revealed that to be common understanding. Please read my comment to other customers again.

To other customers: The 2B has not been adequately designed and tested for use with the larger premium electrodes; there is a significant risk of 2B circuit damage.

I believe that is true of all 2B versions. So, admin, would you like to bet on my 2B box being able to power the Stuffer electrode (Waterfall, 100%, 80:100, high mode, AC adapter) for an hour? Would you like that live-streamed for verification of the results? Of course, that must wait until after you fix both channels of my 2B and get it back to me.

[admin]

I'm a little confused, as a friendly conversation seems to turned quite personal. If this is down to my interpretation of the posts then I apologise in advance. The fact you are sharing what the admin posts is really confusing - you do realise anyone can go back and see these posts for themselves? It is a forum after all.

You appear to feel the power of the Remote and the 2B is inadequate to drive the Stuffer is going to be down to your personal perception, we have plenty of users who find the larger electrodes even The Decimator work well with the 2B, but equally we have many people who would not even be able to insert the Stuffer or the OMG, so its down to personal taste, and we cannot control that.

Given the fact we are discussing issues with a unit that is over a year old, when many companies would just ignore you with the standard 'its over 12 months old its not our problem', should demonstrate that we are not many companies.

Im not really going to continue to argue with you as a number of comments are down to differences in opinion, and differences in interpretation of such terms as 'significant', and we generally don't discuss the internal workings of any of our units, especially when comments are based on reverse engineered and out of date posts, together with a mis understanding of some of the design decisions we have made, again a very similar policy to many other companies.

Once your unit comes back then I will investigate the issues and ensure the problem does not re occur. As to your offer to livestream your session? that is up to you, I dare say many people will enjoy viewing.

Hope that helps

Si